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Old 04-19-2004, 05:21 PM   #21
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Sorry to rant, but when history is misrepresented I get ornery.
Riiiiiiiiiggggghhhttt.
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Old 04-20-2004, 05:16 AM   #22
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Heh...thats mature.

The effort of using machines to mimic the human mind has always struck me as rather silly. I would rather use them to mimic something better.
-Edgar Dijkstra
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Old 04-20-2004, 05:23 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by hmaonic
Hm, I think he's touched on the subject of the samurai and the difference between seppuku (切腹 ?... not sure if that'll come across) and suicides among our armed forces in Iraq. The former was, ideally, a conscious choice arising from their (somewhat twisted-sounding, imo) code of honor. The latter is more likely to be an act born of desperation, depression, or perhaps some other mental illness. One might call that weak but I prefer not to judge those people so harshly. Maybe they weren't great warriors but what difference does that make in an unjust war? That's how I see the situation anyway and I know that's a rather contentious subject. They probably needed some psychiatric help and didn't receive it. They probably shouldn't have been in a war to begin with. Maybe they shouldn't have enlisted, maybe the military should have done something different. I don't know... Should the families of suicides feel worse than the families of those K.I.A.? Why the heck are our troops occupying Iraq, again? Will all these deaths be meaningless?
Good points!

The effort of using machines to mimic the human mind has always struck me as rather silly. I would rather use them to mimic something better.
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Old 04-20-2004, 01:15 PM   #24
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Should I start building bunkbeds?

Because I can.
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Old 04-20-2004, 01:30 PM   #25
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The bit that bothered me the most about this article is the same bit Muffhead pointed out "...stop thinking so much". This commanding officer didn't even try to rationally explain any of the "good" (if flimsy) reasons for fighting in Iraq. I wonder if this is because he is trying to suppress his own doubts about the war or simply a repression of intelligent discussion within the ranks.

"If you live in the twentieth century you do not find it hard to see yourself in those, more desperate than yourself, who seek to shape it to their will."

"Fuck the orphans! If they were worth a damn, somebody would care for them. And if somebody cared for them, they wouldn't be orphans. Somebody's gonna eat those little fuckers and it's either you or the C.H.U.D.s. C.H.U.D.s who, it goes without saying, are in this country illegally."
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Old 04-20-2004, 01:39 PM   #26
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Discussion in the ranks isn't something the military is built to do. It's not it's intended purpose, and no one goes into the army thinking otherwise.

When storming a castle, or building, or bunker, or whatever, there's not a philosophical debate or what have you or democratic process. It's the millitary.

A commanding officer can tell you to shut up, and he can even give you a condescending remark to "not think so much". But he really can't order someone to 'not think so much'. That's kind of rediculous.

An army (US or revolutionary or otherwise) that did encourage debate would likely be the worst army ever. That's true in the much maligned US military as it is in the romanticized Che army or Continental Army of the US Revolutionary War.
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Old 04-20-2004, 02:12 PM   #27
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I agree completely Tony and Army allowed to debate itself would be the worst army ever. I explained my point badly. I just meant in this specific case where a soldier was having doubts I think it would be more psychologically effective to encourage them rather than discourage them.

"If you live in the twentieth century you do not find it hard to see yourself in those, more desperate than yourself, who seek to shape it to their will."

"Fuck the orphans! If they were worth a damn, somebody would care for them. And if somebody cared for them, they wouldn't be orphans. Somebody's gonna eat those little fuckers and it's either you or the C.H.U.D.s. C.H.U.D.s who, it goes without saying, are in this country illegally."
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